Tag Archives: SSM

Problems w Conservative Argument Against SSM….

A fellow from my aviation universe posted a seemingly very well thought out conservative argument against SSM. It was not meant to convince, but more so to help others understand his opposition to it. I have to give the author types a lot of credit, there was a lot of thought put into it, and unlike the hating types, these Christian aviation folks really seem to be trying to walk a Christlike path. It did receive a lot of praise, from the conservative crowd… but crickets from most everyone else.

The problem is the vastly different frames of reference… the appeals to the scriptures, the focus on love and the hope of the Gospels are shared by both camps. Likewise, the same scriptures used by those against SSM marriage, are also commonly used by those for same sex marriage…. and thus we have vastly different outcomes from mostly the same reference material.

Being Pastor Steve and I have spent way too much time arguing back and forth over the years on this very issue, I thought it would be worth shedding some light on things I discovered over the years.

The following factors are at play:

The weighting factors leading to approval or dismissal of higher criticism as concerns the 7 clobber texts (6 here, plus this one) plays a huge role. If all we had were today’s English translations, things would be pretty easy to sort out. Alas, even something as simple as reading the texts in the original languages sends a drastically different message, and that alone should raise the red flags. In addition, since we have a ton of Greek and Hebrew manuscripts and literature of that time period, even more of this shifts into a land of intense gray with higher criticism. There is no easy way to resolve this…

The perception of antinomianism (anti-law) is at the hands of both parties.  In the case against SSM, if one merely dismisses the 7 clobber texts without the use of higher criticism, such a charge seems quite reasonable… the proverbial, these scriptures are too hard to hear, so we won’t consider them is very much anti-law..

On the other hand, if one looks to Matthew 25 and the greatest commandments, follow by Jesus explicit statement that the law and the prophets hang from them… the argument against SSM ends up coming from the bottom up, rather than top down… and thus, we end up anti-law mode in reference to the greatest commandments. Consider how often Jesus worked on the Sabbath… which really was more important  big picture wise than adhering explicitly to the third commandment.

Both of the above antinomianism scenarios are very hard to understand by the opposing parties on the opposing side… I’m not quite sure how to get past this one either. Belinda suggested that looking at the scriptures as a whole vs proof texting might be a helpful route.

Another factor that plays off of this is the difference between complementarianism and egalitarianism in marriage as concerns consent. Within the construct of egalitarianism, consent plays a huge role, where as its downplayed a fair amount in complementarianism. While this difference plays out mostly in the haterz realm with straw man arguments (ie what next, marry your dog or pet fish), I’ve often seen a semblance of decreased focus on consent circling through specific sectors of the conservative domain… which often leads to errant assumptions that one is talking about the same thing, when in reality they are not. I think this is one of the easier things to process through such that both parties can understand.

Lastly, a somewhat over shadowing aspect is sanctity/disgust as defined in Haidt’s Moral Foundations Theory. I remember when a couple young gal friends of mine told me some years they were moving in with each other and starting a relationship. In my mind, the relationship was a most beautiful thing, but I also had some concerns about cohabitation aspect / the lack of church community support and preparation that would be available to them if they were not same gender. Even today, all these years later, I find the churches inaction in this domain bordering on negligence. No doubt it will change with time… but still, isn’t every relationship worth supporting? And there in lies a huge difference in the sanctity/disgust domain… many would not find such a relationship a beautiful thing, some might even find it borderline disgusting.

Despite all of the above seemingly impossible paths going forward, I came across the following from Brandon’s blog where he publishes an anonymous story of a young Catholic girl trying to process SCOTUS decision… there is much wisdom in the young. I think the next generation will do us proud in a variety of ways.

Ponderings on SSM

As pretty much everyone is aware, SCOTUS ruled in favor of SSM on Friday. Many celebrated with rainbow colored pictures, some expressed sadness and disagreement, and more than a few expressed great hate, anger, and condemnation.  Its ok to disagree with the ruling, but when the fruits of the spirit get cast aside and replaced with hate we (Christianity in general) have a big problem

I wrote on World Vision’s local church SSM autonomy policy and reversal about 15 months ago, where in I focused on folks who possess other than strong faith. Folks responses to Friday’s decision have many parallels to that posting, so I’ll copy a snippet….

The issue of whether SSM is aligned with, or counter to the scriptures is not the big deal. The issue of whether the ancient creeds of the historical Christian faith have been cast aside to the point that SSM is a bigger deal than the trinity is not the primary issue at hand either. This is not to say such is not important, especially over the long haul, but they pale in comparison to something else right here, right now.

The big deal today is the weaker brother and sister as well as those who were trampled upon….

The most disturbing aspect of this is the folks in tears over loosing their faith. It is a tragedy.

The brood of vipers behaviors actions appeared the last straw for many. One person said, “I was hanging onto Christianity by a thread, its now been broken”. There are many similar stories, and no doubt even more that will never be known. I think such is quite likely destroying the work of God which Paul preaches against in Romans 14.

Those experiencing the last straw are not just gay folks, not just young folks, not just old folks, but a wide variety of Christians from a whole multitude of life stories and denominations… this is a much bigger problem than what the govt does, or doesn’t do as concerns marriage.

Lastly, while I am pro SSM, I do allow opposing views on my blog comment stream… barring in mind that I will delete spam, TLDR, and hate comments. If you can keep it pastoral and disagree, do feel free to chime in. You won’t convince me, as I’ve studied this for over ten years, but the dialog may help those on the fence to lean one way or the other.

World Vision Blow up and People of Strong Faith

Its really not about you. There are people of strong faith who had significant heartburn over WV’s decision to change their employee agreement to provide for local church autonomy as concerns same sex marriage. There are also people of strong faith who applauded WV’s decision and were dismayed at its reversal.

The issue of whether SSM is aligned with, or counter to the scriptures is not the big deal. The issue of whether the ancient creeds of the historical Christian faith have been cast aside to the point that SSM is a bigger deal than the trinity is not the primary issue at hand either. This is not to say such is not important, especially over the long haul, but they pale in comparison to something else right here, right now.

The big deal today is the weaker brother and sister as well as those who were trampled upon.

Folks comments on Christianity Today ventured into the domain of the darkest corners of the internet… I’ve seen more of the light of Christ coming from 4chan members than from CT.  Others noted this as well.

The most disturbing aspect of this is the folks in tears over loosing their faith. It is a tragedy.

The brood of vipers behaviors actions appeared the last straw for many. One person said, “I was hanging onto Christianity by a thread, its now been broken”. There are many similar stories, and no doubt even more that will never be known. I think such is quite likely destroying the work of God which Paul preaches against in Romans 14.

It didn’t need to happen this way…

Certainly Pope Francis is no advocate of SSM, but his approach is one of pastoral sensitivity, not of do a little evil that good may come. Even his statements concerning civil unions while very much supporting his church were of a pastoral nature rather than condemnation.

Our own Pastor Nadia, in her no-nonsense manner stated the following after the WV reversal.  “I’m very disappointed, but still happy to support their work. The critique of pulling support for charity due to an employee hiring practice I disagree with has to cut both ways or it’s bullshit.”

The fire, brimstone, brood of vipers bloodbaths that went on this week are a negative witness and counter to the Good News of Christ… who would really want to be a part of that? The actions done in the “name of Christ”, no matter which side one is on are repulsive. Imagine how folks would feel if rather than SSM, this was an issue over divorce or remarriage?

We need to pray for the weaker brothers and sisters who faith was destroyed or nearly destroyed this week. We need to pray for GLBT-Q folks, both celibate and married for healing and ask for forgiveness.The hatred and vitriole WV employees have experienced this week has to be incredible demoralizing and they need prayer as well. Lastly, we need to pray for those who whom WV serves… imagine being a teenager in an impoverished country and hearing about this?

People of strong faith, its really not about you.

*My general comment policy is to allow all comments, short of spam which I can readily identify and/or excessive TLDR. For this specific post, any comments relating to SSM from other than a pastoral nature will be deleted. There will be no blood bath, brood of viper, or related garbage on my blog, no matter how well you feel its supported by the scriptures. All other comments are welcome.